The subDomme dilemma

Philosophical Musings Warning

Is domination associative, transitive or both?

Domme/sub relationships described well can be arousing^[1], but cases where a female Domme is also a sub to someone else are fascinating.

I'm not talking about switching in a couple (which can have its own charms) but where the female Domme both controls her sub and in turn also surrenders herself to or is otherwise controlled by another Dom(me). The main interest is in the dilemmas and joys-of-tension that the lady-in-the-middle faces, how play, 24/7 and balance interact, and how the poor sub at the bottom of the heap fares. The Top Domme may have her own needs, but she can take care of herself.

Here I'll just muse and reflect about the situation. No judgements are made, no profound insights should be discerned, no even-remotely-firm conclusions will be drawn. Assume everything is qualified with 'maybe', 'might' or 'possibly'. My tone will tend to the jocular when I can, so I hope it also amuses. But beware: there are many arguments and some quite strong differences of opinion on this topic — these are only my thoughts — 'Tis the wind, and nothing more.

I have three (hot) examples from the 'blogosphere' I'll use to illustrate, discuss and muse. All I know about the first two comes from their blogs. For this post Domme names are emboldened and any abbreviations should be self-evident. All errors are mine and if anyone feels slighted or misjudged, please holler. These examples are:

• Molly in Under Contract To My Wife, where she has a cyber-Master (the 'Western Correspondent') with whom she has heavily orgasmic sessions with some regularity. Whilst the bulk of the (almost daily) narrative is written by the 'slave' (Mick) there is a lot of additional material provided by the others involved, mostly in comments.
• Diane in Bi and Large..., who has a physical Mistress (Sandra) who she meets frequently. A strong 'threesome' is developing rapidly, with the sub ('hubwife', formerly Michelle) definitely at the bottom of the heap. The blog is written exclusively by Diane^[2].
• s1, one of my subs, who has a strong and well-established D/s relationship with her cuckolded and feminized husband (s1_v) but is also very cyber-beholden to MissBehaviour. (Some exploits are described on the blog.) All material described here is from my own experience and point-of-view. It is also deliberately circumspect.

From Domme to subDomme

All three seem well-established as a Domme within marriage before adding and developing the submissive relationship - I suspect it will be rare the other way round,  though one could foresee possibilities. But the initial triggers toward submission vary somewhat:

• Diane 'fell in love' with another woman.... and that head-over-heels progressed towards something with a power dimension. 'hubwife' just had to accept what inevitably was happening.
• Molly (and Mick) decided that some 'cuckoldry' element would add some additional spice, and they advertised for suitable candidates. (The cuckoldry hasn't yet become 'physical'. Given the fun evident in the relationship, any such might not be as traumatic as is sometimes the case in other D/s cuckold situations.)
• s1 and MissBehaviour met serendipitously while temporarily fleeing from an 'improved' chat site to a safe-haven. We 'clicked' pretty quickly and it was clear MB was able to feed her with some of the type of mental domination she needed.

What is it that these ladies wanted in addition to their control in Domme mode ^[3]? Obviously in Diane's case there was a very strong (physical) sexual need that 'hubwife' couldn't satisfy (but paradoxically another lady could!), but for Molly and s1 they had apparently highly satisfactory sources on tap.

A distinct possibility is wishing temporarily to relinquish responsibility, by handing over (sexual) control to another and do this in a way that deeply pleasures and satisfies in the sex context she has grown to love. Molly's weekly switch two hours satisfies that in part (Mick finds it terribly hard work, and as the lowest-paid employee in UCTMW Inc feels that these types of  fringe benefit could be much more generous ;-), but using the sub in switch-mode probably doesn't really satisfy the 'surrender' element. To achieve this needs a third party.

Or it might simply be just plain fun!

The Domme's Dom(me)

The choice of who will dominate the dominatrix is critical of course, especially if, as here, the intention is not to destroy the existing (and presumably very satisfactory) D/s relationship already in place and possibly even enhance it. In two of our cases domination comes from cyberspace primarily (MB/s1 is through chat and email, WC/Molly uses email, blog & phone), in the other it is physical.

Trust, humour, imagination and intelligence are essential. The ability to seize opportunities and remarks and turn them into action can really make things work. Excellent examples include Sandra exploiting a daydreaming moment by Diane to trigger a further stage in 'pet development', MB building a whole set of scenarios from an offhand remark by s1_v and many occasions where Molly's WC will make salacious suggestions via text, often at or after bedtime.

For the cyber cases, the remote sexual domination (mind-fucking is an excellent term) can be supplemented physically. Supervised masturbation of course is pretty central... the Hitachi makes itself worth-its-weight in helping with intensity. (Mick has been in deep trouble when the toy has been mislaid.) And in some cases the sub can act as a physical surrogate, being directed closely by the remote Dom(me), though it needs very clear bounds and high trust in the sub (which is definitely the case in our examples.) s1_v has been eminently successful in such a role for MB/s1, in part from the extensive training she had from her Mistress. There is some evidence of WC 'strongly suggesting' actions for Mick to execute during the couple's switch two hours.

What about the poor (old) sub?

Part of the difficulty in keeping the balance and enjoyment for all is what happens to the bottom of the heap. Assuming he doesn't really get off by being totally ignored, then he needs attention and directive attention, but what, from whom, when and how? If we assume the TopDomme does know about the sub, then what is the dynamic between all three parties?

This is where transitivity and associativity from the strap line enter.
   Does the bottom sub get dominated directly by the  Domme [transitivity]?
   Does "(Domme → domme) → sub" ≡ "Domme → (domme → sub)" [associativity]?
Enquiring minds want to know, and seek evidence.

In two situations the transitivity is strong, in the other less so.

• In Diane's case the issue of when, whether and how Sandra dominates 'hubwife' is the subject of some almost heated arguments in the blog's comments. This relationship is becoming a strong close threesome and 'hubwife' already provides domestic service to her TopDomme weekly, sometimes with a degree of hilarity. But even here Diane is experiencing the dilemma and some of the comments in reaction to her blog are becoming a little acerbic, and perhaps not helpful.
• MB has free-rein to domme s1_v  directly (this has been made clear several times by s1) and she does as circumstances permit, though primary focus is on s1 herself of course. 
• Any control of Mick by WC appears loose and jocular and mostly suggestions to Molly made during their frequent technologically-supported intercourse - this is definitely a case where the transitivity is weak.

The associativity relates to whether Domme works on domme, the resulting state operating on sub, or whether Domme works on the 'pair' as one and does it make a difference?

• MissBehaviour actually operates in both modes - often working primarily on s1 who then may 'punish' s1_v subsequently. But she also sometimes works with the pair together, with direct control of s1 punishing her sub. A fun variant of the latter is where they have to punish and arouse each other in turn, closely directed by MB. As they are very aware of each other's limits and are very experienced, this can be extremely satisfactory for all parties.
• For Diane the associativity issue becomes one of how much 'independence' she is granted or asserts or can generate herself in controlling 'hubwife'. This is fascinating and well worth following some of the twists and turns and musings in her blog. And clearly it isn't easy.
• For Molly it is much more clear cut - the Molly/Mick dynamic is really under her control alone.

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Does it matter? Well yes. The common thread amongst these is building, developing and maintaining happy relationships, with much trust and lots of fun. And central to that is all parties (including the poor (old) sub) understand what they're doing: accepting, agreeing and contributing to it, and getting pleasure from it. All are intelligent, consenting adults, who listen to each other and listen closely. And how the domination and submission is agreed, traded and controlled is crucial.

Comments are welcomed of course.. but don't get too heated. Back to lighter, dirtier or more fun stuff in future posts.

MissBehaviour 

[1] Two good 'conventional' D/s relationships I dip into are: MsMarie and All Mine (only FLRs grab my attention ;-). I'll summarise / review these in a later posting.
[2] After a particularly 'heavy' set of comments around an exceptionally powerful and intense development in their relationship, Sandra posted an appreciative 'closure' comment on behalf of Diane.
[3] The Domme advice - always experience what you are going to dish out, if only in part, whilst sound, is orthogonal to these musings.